tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post4000701120209540085..comments2023-10-21T03:54:12.029-04:00Comments on A Gift Universe: Did Jesus really rise?Sheilahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-9952874089708085082018-04-21T15:33:57.679-04:002018-04-21T15:33:57.679-04:00None of the resurrection accounts were written by ...None of the resurrection accounts were written by women.Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-25327525890409332862018-04-13T15:46:36.682-04:002018-04-13T15:46:36.682-04:00#believewomen#believewomenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-85368937255888032382018-03-31T13:47:27.071-04:002018-03-31T13:47:27.071-04:00Ugh, an error above -- I meant to say works ABOUT ...Ugh, an error above -- I meant to say works ABOUT Herod, not OF Herod. I have no idea if Herod wrote anything.<br /><br />Originally I had intended my post to include a paragraph about how ancient historical documents often include supernatural legends -- even otherwise credible authors -- and we normally just discount those parts. I know I've come across stuff like that in my reading. But I couldn't find a good example to link to, or remember which specific authors were guilty of it, so I left that part out. But yes, we normally hear about signs and wonders which are based on religious or cultural beliefs we don't share, and immediately discount them as exaggerated or made up.<br /><br />And it's safe to say the historians of the past weren't as careful as we are about substantiating something before passing it on. I've read quite a number of Roman and medieval texts which all claimed that eating menstrual blood would make dogs rabid. Clearly they all copied off each other, and nobody ever thought, "Let's try actually feeding some to a dog and see what happens." They trusted that something written down would be true -- which we all know isn't true. Even in the internet age, when theoretically we should be able to fact-check anything in two minutes, a lie still gets around the world before the truth has its boots on.<br /><br />The Biblical authors are, if anything, less careful than the historians of their time. The latter, at least, tend to hedge when they're not sure: "it is given out," "some say," and so on. The gospel writers speak very definitively, even about private conversations they couldn't possibly know -- like when Pilate's wife tells him to let Jesus go, or the Jews come to Pilate to demand a guard over Jesus' body. It's supposed to make them sound more credible, but I find it less so, because a good historian is clear on how solid his sources are, and they can't all be flawless. Only in fiction are authors allowed to simply dictate without any reference to how certain their knowledge is.Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-84792745598083355042018-03-31T12:02:42.019-04:002018-03-31T12:02:42.019-04:00Ah, but most Catholics I know believe that stuff a...Ah, but most Catholics I know believe that stuff about Rasputin as well.<br /><br />Unfortunately you basically couldn't have that kind of evidence of the resurrection. It was at a time when the best we could get would be written accounts and/or archeological finds. And let's get real -- if most people today saw a *video* that was supposed to be of a resurrection, they'd much sooner assume special effects than a miracle. Or if they saw it in real life, they'd assume it was a different person or that the person wasn't really dead. There are so many more likely explanations.<br /><br />So I'm perfectly willing to allow the bar to be set at the best evidence that could have been had at the time. And there still isn't. There are no records of the earthquake, the eclipse, the dead people rising from their tombs and appearing within the city. There are no letters home from people in Jerusalem seeing all that took place that week. Philo the Jew was living not that far away, in Alexandria, but he never mentions Christianity. Pilate was obviously a witness to all of it, but he never wrote anything about it. Neither is it mentioned in the works of Herod. If it all really happened as described, one would expect some mention in all of these. Or at least we could say that, if God wanted to make sure these things were known, he could have made sure we had some of these to reference. But no. It's all lost to the mists of time.Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-66626515793296642762018-03-30T22:09:45.726-04:002018-03-30T22:09:45.726-04:00I agree with the stuff you are saying, Sheila, but...I agree with the stuff you are saying, Sheila, but I have an additional reason for skepticism that you did not mention at least in this post, although you got very close to the same idea when mentioning Joseph Smith and the Mormon golden plates.<br /><br />You said: "Every discipline has a gold standard. ... In history, it's multiple independent contemporaneous sources, backed up if possible with archeological finds."<br /><br />I think that the standards of evidence that we generally use for history are not applicable to historical events that describe impossible things. Or at least, they are not sufficient. A historical event could have multiple contemporaneous sources and still not be worthy of belief because it relates something that is impossible.<br /><br />I would require more evidence to believe something that is impossible, such as a corpse becoming alive again after being dead for 48 hours.<br /><br />For example, take someone like Rasputin. There are many stories of him apparently miraculously surviving things that should have killed a man in natural circumstances. I require *more evidence* to believe these facts about Rasputin than I require to believe merely that Rasputin existed. <br /><br />It's not because I'm anti-Rasputin (well, maybe I am given his apparently lack of morality). BUT, the real reason I doubt all of this stuff is just because this is not in accordance with what I know about how human bodies operate.Paul Tillotsonnoreply@blogger.com