tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post366174610375429439..comments2023-10-21T03:54:12.029-04:00Comments on A Gift Universe: A bit about bodily autonomySheilahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-60242072618565028302012-01-30T19:27:04.015-05:002012-01-30T19:27:04.015-05:00Great post. I am a (Protestant denomination) Chris...Great post. I am a (Protestant denomination) Christian and I agree with what you are saying. I prefer the two-shirts method of keeping myself covered, but if the situation were different (if I was larger, twins, difficulty getting latched on), I don't think I would have any problem showing more skin. I define being "immodest" as displaying ones self in a sexually inappropriate manner, and nursing never/very rarely falls into that category.Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12519685315586889843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-25345238694402663362012-01-01T08:05:32.021-05:002012-01-01T08:05:32.021-05:00You might find the culture's a bit different i...You might find the culture's a bit different in New Mexico. ;) I know that in Mexico itself, people are a lot more relaxed about the whole thing because they have never lost their breastfeeding culture like we did.<br /><br />My point in this whole post, though, is that it isn't MY call if a woman is being "modest enough," it's HERS. Because anything else would be saying that I have the right to tell other people how to dress, which I don't. I might be surprised or startled by how someone else dresses, but since I don't own their body, I don't really have the right to criticize.Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-8029633003888844532011-12-31T14:45:51.423-05:002011-12-31T14:45:51.423-05:00I have only once seen a woman do something which I...I have only once seen a woman do something which I thought was indecent when it came to nursing, and this I attribute to too much pot in her youth and too much peyote in recent years. <br /><br />We were in New Mexico visiting my family. While there, I went to the farm where my stepmother works. At the farm there is a play area and a corn maze (it was fall). A woman who decided she was not only going to forego the general undergarments appropriate for women, but she was going to take her entire top off too in order to "nurse better." The kid was at least two, if not old - he knows what he is doing and doesn't need unrestricted access to mommy like that. At least wear a shirt! Again, too much peyote? <br /><br />But yes, generally women don't "nurse for show." Most women I know who nurse are modest, even when it is just us women and the kids around. There may be the occasional slip, but that usually is because kids are running around, nursing, running around, nursing, etc.'Akaterinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08565471800660067407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-90541814251035350582011-12-31T13:05:03.560-05:002011-12-31T13:05:03.560-05:00I have never, ever, even once, seen anyone nurse &...I have never, ever, even once, seen anyone nurse "for show," or heard of it from a reliable source, either. How would you know what the mother's intentions are? Did she tell you?<br /><br />Sometimes, mothers do make a point while feeding their baby. Their point is, "Please stop harassing women who are doing this. Sooner or later, you're going to have to get used to it." But it is physically impossible to make a child nurse who doesn't want to. And if you choose to nurse in public instead of in private to support women's right to nurse where they want -- that's just advocating for other moms and babies, while giving your baby lunch at the same time. I don't see what's wrong with that. When that point no longer needs to be made, no one is going to waste their time making it. The very fact that you are seeing "nurse-ins" in response to harassment women are receiving is proof that the point hasn't been taken yet.Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-90961383301567917202011-12-31T08:33:10.202-05:002011-12-31T08:33:10.202-05:00There are people out there nursing "for show,...There are people out there nursing "for show," to make a point. That, I think, is just using your baby.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-63580510451482908862011-12-29T19:36:10.822-05:002011-12-29T19:36:10.822-05:00Anonymous, you are so nice that I wish I knew who ...Anonymous, you are so nice that I wish I knew who you were!<br /><br />'Akaterina, exactly. I make my effort out of charity for the men, and they can make the rest of the effort out of forbearance for me. Deciding how much to cover is my job. Deciding where to look instead is their job. I'm doing my best, and whatever my "best" ends up looking like, I wish this were always understood and assumed.<br /><br />See, I'm a stick. I don't anyone has ever, in my life, accused me of immodesty. My great-great-aunt once mistook me for a boy though. So I don't think I'm the standard for what most women are able to do in terms of modesty. I know other women have a tendency to say, "Well, *I* never had a problem, so I don't know what *their* problem is!" But for women with a larger bust size, it appears to be a heck of a lot harder. I'm certainly not going to be the one to march up and tell them they could be doing better.<br /><br />I've never seen anyone in real life "baring it all." I've seen pictures online, but generally on blogs that are read by women. It just doesn't seem a big deal to me, even if I do see "everything." I suppose it might be shocking in public because people aren't used to it. But still, we're NOT out there storming Hooters, and they show just as much, in a much more provocative way. It's just a matter of being culturally unaccustomed to nursing -- and I find the older a person is, the more squeamish they are. Perhaps in 20 years this will all be a non-issue.Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-44371852732294111942011-12-29T17:18:48.537-05:002011-12-29T17:18:48.537-05:00Sheila,
I enjoyed this post. Andrew and I start...Sheila, <br /><br />I enjoyed this post. Andrew and I started a loooong discussion on issues of modesty. :) <br /><br />In short, Andrew said from a guy's point of view, on a scale of 0 - 10 (0 being grandma and 10 being a lap dancer as far as temptation goes), he said a nursing woman is about a 3. The reason he gave was because, even though a woman is nursing, for guys, context doesn't usually matter. So if it is a pretty girl and the breast is exposed (even just a bit) it can (though not always) be a temptation. But still, only a 3. He also pointed out that these thoughts have little to do with "controlling one's actions" and can come to many who are trying to be virtuous. The difference would be whether or not he dwells on those thoughts.<br /><br />That being said, I totally agree with you. As a larger woman (especially in the bust) I get a little annoyed when people criticize my nursing in public. Because I am a little larger in the chest, I usually bring a nursing cover or blanket, just because there is not good modest way for me to nurse otherwise (I either show my midriff or expose at least the top of both breasts). <br /><br /> But I think some people are unduly scandalize, as though they are looking to be scandalized. I found this both at my alma matter and around here among some of the ultra conservative (shapeless plaid jumper types). Being a curvier woman, yes I have hips and yes I have a bust. Sorry I am not a tooth pick, but I am not going to wear a tent! There has to come a point where my effort matches the man's restraint. Yes I will most likely show a "divot" because of my bust size, but it isn't like I am wearing a plunging neck line. <br /><br />So when it comes to nursing, I think people are unnecessarily squeamish. It isn't like most women who nurse are just bearing it all out there (though I have seen that! Good grief!). The article you posted make a great point too. If the majority of people aren't tearing down Hooters and the Playboy mansion, then why so up tight about a natural process?'Akaterinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08565471800660067407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-11815132831071610862011-12-29T17:17:57.450-05:002011-12-29T17:17:57.450-05:00Sheila, I have seen that debate and did make one c...Sheila, I have seen that debate and did make one comment. I agree completely with you about nursing whenever and wherever you need to. I respect your decision. I have no children of my own (unfortunately) but if I had to nurse "in public", I would do so, and would do everything possible to remain discreet. But that would be because I would be uncomfortable making anyone else feel so. <br /><br />I find it amazing that the debate was started and carried on by some who have not only no children, but no life experience beyond going to college. I think you remained graceful in the debate and don't blame you for doing what you did. Though I don't always agree with you, I respect your opinion as a woman and a mom. (oh and I do enjoy reading your blog).<br /><br />Hope you, John and Marko have a great New Year. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-78896578408349579542011-12-29T16:06:11.505-05:002011-12-29T16:06:11.505-05:00Aw, thanks! Though I have to say, if you look aro...Aw, thanks! Though I have to say, if you look around at my followers, they have almost nothing in common. Some are Catholic like me. Some are moms like me. Some are into real food like me. And some, I can't figure out what they see in my blog, though I'm glad they enjoy it!<br /><br />Let me tell you, I needed a little praise today. I'm getting a lot of grief from other places for my "radical" opinions, and it's nice to remember that *most* people I know actually do like to hear what I think, and don't think I'm nuts.<br /><br />Been thinking of you a lot since you posted about your family's loss. Hope all are well.Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-41982193250450205742011-12-29T15:58:28.259-05:002011-12-29T15:58:28.259-05:00"But I keep seeing time and time again, vario..."But I keep seeing time and time again, various sources -- mostly patriarchal Protestant ones, but Catholic ones too -- that suggest that anything a man thinks about a woman is her fault."<br /><br />This was exactly the reason I originally left the faith (I was raised Baptist). If I had not had a conversion experience, I would never have been Christian again. If I had not *then* been led to the UCC, I am not sure what I could have done.<br /><br /><br />An aside:<br /><br />Though I don't always agree with everything you say (mainly this is due to me not being Catholic), I *always* love the way you say it. And I certainly agree with what you have to say about terrorists, motherhood, temptation, nursing, and bodily autonomy (I could go on). SO I just want to say - THANK YOU so much for saying it. I am alo incredibly impressed with your writing skills - so thank you for blogging too:) Thank you for kindly welcoming me as well, as I am a bit of an outsider in your readership.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-74909359172689014452011-12-29T14:55:19.810-05:002011-12-29T14:55:19.810-05:00Go, Sheila!
The debate was horrible, which is why...Go, Sheila!<br /><br />The debate was horrible, which is why I didn't get involved. But I definitely agree with your blog post. :-)Betsynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-38458311327311258782011-12-29T13:13:24.771-05:002011-12-29T13:13:24.771-05:00I'm really curious about the debate, but I am ...I'm really curious about the debate, but I am also glad I haven't seen it. People are idiots. Great post, and well said. As always, I'm on your side here. ;)JenniC10https://www.blogger.com/profile/00561838367364348587noreply@blogger.com