tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post6339923786457162431..comments2023-10-21T03:54:12.029-04:00Comments on A Gift Universe: On gossipSheilahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-37008235777182427082010-12-30T18:52:21.053-05:002010-12-30T18:52:21.053-05:00I think you said this very well and I completely a...I think you said this very well and I completely agree with you. :)Melodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05859568015767404451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-90008916567219953702010-12-30T15:26:59.018-05:002010-12-30T15:26:59.018-05:00Sarah, I didn't think you were accusing anyone...Sarah, I didn't think you were accusing anyone of anything. :)<br /><br />I think you pretty much agree with me -- like I said, venting is something you have to be really careful about so that you don't hurt anyone. It's just that there are situations where you can do it -- venting to your spouse about your boss, for instance, rather than going crazy because you can't talk about it.Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-531157041595975612010-12-30T15:00:47.445-05:002010-12-30T15:00:47.445-05:00I couldn't agree more. I think that much of t...I couldn't agree more. I think that much of the time it's about knowing your audience, as you implied, as well as balance. We should be objective and tell the truth, but we should also understand that the truth can really hurt people. And if telling the truth doesn't benefit anybody, then we should avoid hurting other people.<br /><br />I really needed this today. Thanks for posting.Carla Schmidt Hollowayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12947846629735463824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-32967906940740693522010-12-30T14:20:05.504-05:002010-12-30T14:20:05.504-05:00I don't really put church discipline or censur...I don't really put church discipline or censure in the same category as gossip. <br /><br />I agree it's impossible to help judging at times. I think what the catechism is saying is just that we need to lend a judgment of charity whenever possible. So we still judge - but using benefit of the doubt. <br /><br />I totally know what you mean, the dangers of not allowing criticism. That is SUCH a bad situation and leads to loads of problems later!! My personal experience with that situation is it causes MORE gossip because people are "not allowed" to talk to one another -so hurt feelings abound and are shared with someone not inside the problem. I observe that the antidote to that is being up front WITH the person - not behind their back. <br />Basically I totally agree with you on whether to say something (and I like your thought process on how to get there) - I guess I'm just emphasizing that to whom we say it (our spouse, our Lord, or someone not involved in the situation at all) and why is what's at issue. <br /><br />I certainly wasn't intending to accuse any one person of gossiping. thought this was a theoretical discussion and I am trying to apply it to myself. :) <br /><br />Thanks for your thoughts. I am not trying to argue, just comment- As you requested. :)Sarah Faithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08878664620465280344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-16791958139162560702010-12-30T13:52:32.433-05:002010-12-30T13:52:32.433-05:00Mostly, when I vent about something, I'm basic...Mostly, when I vent about something, I'm basically asking, "Am I overreacting? Do I have the right to expect to be treated better? What should I do -- bear in silence or speak up?" That's why I vent to so few; I need someone wise to help me figure this out.<br /><br />Sometimes you can't help judging someone. For example, if one person condemns another person, you have to choose: someone is lying. Suspending judgment is the best course, but you still have to admit the possibility that someone is lying.<br /><br />For example, the Holy Father disciplined a certain priest. I have two choices: admit the priest might have done something wrong, or condemn the Pope for judging someone falsely. I didn't think the Pope condemned the person publicly for no reason -- rather, he wanted us to be cautious of the person -- so I was. Still allowing for the possibility of misunderstanding, but steering clear of the person until I knew more.<br /><br />It might help to know that I am person who tends toward silence and brooding, not by nature, but because of some of my upbringing. I spent some time in a very damaging environment where criticism was not allowed. The worst is knowing that all of that could have been avoided if more people had spoken out and been listened to.<br /><br />In any event, I leave each person's discernment about when to vent and when to be silent up to them. I consider it very hurtful to suggest a person is gossiping when they're just trying to find an outlet for very real pain. Instead I remember whatever good I know about that person, and, if the occasion is good for it, remind them of it. Otherwise I just listen and don't let it get past my own ears.Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-76341838579935553412010-12-30T11:15:05.960-05:002010-12-30T11:15:05.960-05:00you know what else - thinking and soul searching a...you know what else - thinking and soul searching a little more, it is starting to seem like this venting thing is mostly related to the sin of pride. how many things would I really complain about if I didn't consider myself better than others, rather than the other way around? <br />hmm... <br />i am not saying that all venting is born of pride, but i do think it is related in many cases. what do you think? is there any truth to that? we are to bear with one another's faults in love. love "covers a multitude of sins." <br />i suppose asking a wise and experienced woman how to charitably deal with something you know she's dealt with, and giving her a few specifics, might not be as prideful as calling one's sister in law to complain about one's husband's latest gaffe in charity. <br /><br />but i think maybe my reaction should be oriented more towards: "I will bear this in love" then "I must bring this to the Lord" and then, after prayer, "I must get some advice or feedback from someone who can help." I doubt many of us go through these steps before deciding to share info about other people with others... <br /><br />and not to make people feel guilty - that is not the point - just to make us more like Christ, which we all want, right? <br />:)<br />Happy New Year to you and your family!Sarah Faithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08878664620465280344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-81981933815189844442010-12-30T11:02:22.479-05:002010-12-30T11:02:22.479-05:00Maybe if you say something good about someone at t...Maybe if you say something good about someone at the same time you are saying something true but not as flattering, that might be a good way to temper your own feelings.<br />It might also help to admit, at the same time, your own fault in the situation to maintain a bit of balance. <br /><br />I know that venting can really help (and I usually try to reserve it for my husband's ears) but at the same time, it depends on the individual. Sometimes it does nothing more than fuel the fire of resentment as well as causes triangulation - the getting in the middle of someone unrelated to a particular matter. This is actually a hindrance to charity a la Matthew 18. People need to work out their own differences with love and charity. Coming between them, even as a listener, is damaging to that relationship and chips it away. <br /><br />It's a quite sensitive area and I try to err on the side of caution and confess it when I believe I may have stepped over the line. <br /><br />I think in general it is safe to assume that NOT speaking is the best policy if there is any doubt. Maybe we should get into the habit of bringing all our complaining and venting to Christ in a holy hour - he knows all and will not be led astray by our one sided reports!! Or at least bring them to God in prayer, rather than to another person who cannot do anything about it. <br /><br />Thanks for opening up the topic. You have made me consider it all over again and resolve to keep better control over my tongue in the coming year.Sarah Faithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08878664620465280344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-14716178021152057002010-12-30T11:00:48.200-05:002010-12-30T11:00:48.200-05:00As a fellow Catholic I believe it would behoove yo...As a fellow Catholic I believe it would behoove you to mention/quote the Catechism of our faith on this matter in case someone misunderstands your words. <br />---<br />2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.<br />277 He becomes guilty:<br /><br />- of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;<br /><br />- of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another's faults and failings to persons who did not know them;<br /><br />278<br /><br />- of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.<br /><br />2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor's thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:<br /><br /><br />Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another's statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.279<br /><br />2479 Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one's neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.<br /><br />----<br />I can see where you are coming from. I think it is a natural thing to want to vent to others. I think we can get too used to "our right to vent" and not be quite as careful when it comes to whom we are venting to and whom we are venting about. I personally am guilty of being indiscriminate at times. I think one thing to realize is that based on the catechism above, we need to be careful not to paint a one sided picture of someone - that would lead to a warped and "false" opinion of them. If you are talking to your husband about his mother - well, he KNOWS both sides of the story - he grew up with her and knows all the lovely things she did for him, as well as how annoying she can be in this or that way. But to talk to someone who does not know her good qualities - that may be tainting their opinion of her.<br />It is possible to get such a balanced and fair minded friend that they will not be led astray by the one sidedness of your complaints, but hear only your feelings (like a therapist). But I don't think this is usual!! And you might also be putting the friend in an awkward position. <br />(cont.)Sarah Faithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08878664620465280344noreply@blogger.com