tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post2720735874884365787..comments2023-10-21T03:54:12.029-04:00Comments on A Gift Universe: Unfortunately, there really is a culture war onSheilahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-75287242562829358452012-11-09T16:43:19.456-05:002012-11-09T16:43:19.456-05:00It kind of did come across that way. Sorry if I m...It kind of did come across that way. Sorry if I misread.Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-52812309157057467932012-11-08T18:58:02.079-05:002012-11-08T18:58:02.079-05:00Do you really think I sound like I'm trying to...Do you really think I sound like I'm trying to demonize the people with whom I disagree? What I was at least trying to do was to say, let's be careful ourselves not to use people. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-91023873675998197112012-11-08T09:14:32.262-05:002012-11-08T09:14:32.262-05:00True. However, I do think it's very important...True. However, I do think it's very important not to demonize those with whom we disagree. I do think that there are problems that will necessarily arise if you try to separate sex and babies. On the other hand, most people in our culture don't think of them as intrinsically linked, and most people are good people all the same. They love their spouses and children just as much, and aren't consciously using other people.<br /><br />I know I sound wishy-washy, but the fact is that the more I read and listen to people I disagree with, the more I realize that they are probably better people than I am. The truth doesn't magically fix all of our problems or make us perfect, and the lack of it doesn't keep people from living lives of great virtue.Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-59309570716928267522012-11-07T23:27:27.734-05:002012-11-07T23:27:27.734-05:00I think that those who think sex and babies should...I think that those who think sex and babies should be separate, who don't believe the purpose of sex is bonding AND babies tend to have a utilitarian outlook on people. In fact, perhaps this is a big aspect of concupiscence period. We tend to look at others as someone to use for our own ends, even though of course, we'd like to rationalize that, at the very least to say, "Well, but that person is using me, too, and I don't mind." Allowing babies to come into being is a huge antidote to using that person of the opposite sex purely for pleasure, and encourages the bonding aspect of sex. Sex without bonding or babies ends up being rather meaningless, and one begins to wonder whether one might as well use machines or pornography, etc. for the pleasure. When all is said and done, people DO want to MAKE LOVE, make connections, have commitments, and have a life-giving relationship. They DO end up having their hearts and lives greatly injured by anything less.<br />But even those who have assented to the moral code will find ourselves sometimes using our husbands and wives either for pleasure, or money, or security, or whatever; and then using our children for prestige or convenience or comfort. It is almost unavoidable, being human and weak. But it is a good check on our morals to constantly ask, "Am I loving or using? Am I self-giving or taking?" While of course, we must be interdependent, we must need people, it has to be in an open way in which we respect their dignity as people, subjects of rights, and not objects of our neediness.<br />Complicated! It's really very complicated, but in Pope John Paul II's writings, there are some very inspirational ways of thinking on this issue.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-81847678339534285822012-11-07T18:00:09.156-05:002012-11-07T18:00:09.156-05:00Got your message. Will respond as time and brain-...Got your message. Will respond as time and brain-power allows.<br /><br />I don't presume I'll change your mind. I doubt I could make any argument against your core beliefs that would change them! <br /><br />I may offer a new perspective on paths forward though...<br /><br />Let's take our time. I'm tired too. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-61593189724650983522012-11-07T13:26:57.995-05:002012-11-07T13:26:57.995-05:00I'm sorry, I see that I really did overgeneral...I'm sorry, I see that I really did overgeneralize. I was speaking, I guess, of the specific pro-choice people with whom I've been rubbing elbows lately. I do know that not everyone who is pro-choice is atheist and consequentialist!<br /><br />I am not sure if there is any particular benefit to having a discussion about it, though, because as I said, everyone feels much too strongly about it. I have no intention at all of changing my mind based on anything you say, and I don't think I've ever been in a conversation with anyone who was willing to change their mind either. And I'm also rather exhausted on the whole topic; it depresses me. BUT, that having been said, I think it's fair to hear you out if you want -- though I can't guarantee I will say anything remotely intelligent in response!Sheilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10853868724554947854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-71291750553656449372012-11-06T21:02:29.703-05:002012-11-06T21:02:29.703-05:00I do disagree with this "Pro-choice people, a...I do disagree with this "Pro-choice people, as a general rule, think that sex shouldn't have to have anything to do with babies." <br /><br />The rest...shall be private, but only if you so choose. <br /><br />G'night....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-58980674953267625132012-11-06T17:34:31.793-05:002012-11-06T17:34:31.793-05:00Okay - I started. You can continue or not. My fe...Okay - I started. You can continue or not. My feelings will not be hurt either way! And by the way, I love you too! ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2464977109229359349.post-70622694313426415822012-11-06T17:17:02.750-05:002012-11-06T17:17:02.750-05:00Hi Sheila - If you would you like to have a respec...Hi Sheila - If you would you like to have a respectful conversation with a pro-choice person to find overlap, you aren't going to find that with strangers on the 'net. There are a couple of reasons for that (we can discuss). AND you are welcome to email me and you and I can do it. I'll look for a link and send my contact info. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com